LensCrafters’ Bait-and-Switch Scam: AVP
October 6, 2008 — I’m angry today, because I’ve just wasted two trips to LensCrafters, and now must start over from scratch looking for new eyeglasses.
I wanted to buy new glasses. I knew what I wanted, and I had my prescription (written by the nice lady at the EyeExam office inside LensCrafters, for the bargain price of just $59.95). However, the salespeople I spoke with (and the general manager) kept trying to pitch me on “upgrades” — featherweight lenses, anti-reflective coating, and the “new thing” called AVP (for “Advanced View Progressive,” not “Alien Vs. Predator”).
I had to ask four times before the salesperson finally went into the back and brought out samples of lenses with and without the “anti-reflective” (AR) coating. I was suitably impressed, so we moved forward to the AVP issue. The salesperson could not explain it to me, and I became so frustrated and angry that I simply left the store, promising to return later when I was in a better mood.
But when I returned six hours later, in a better mood and absolutely expecting to spend $300 to $400 on a new pair of eyeglasses, nothing really changed. I asked at least ten different ways for the salesperson and manager to explain what AVP actually is, other than some marketing hype. Each time they explained it, it sounded just a little bit different from the time before.
But one thing was clear: glasses without AVP are crap, and I really needed to buy AVP. No, they couldn’t “show me” anything. No, there was no sales literature. No, AVP is not explained technically.
I finally took a break and tried to research the issue online, using my iPhone. (Of course, this was hard to do since I didn’t have the right eyeglasses.) Eventually, I determined that there simply didn’t seem to be any reference to AVP (“Advanced View Progressive”) anywhere other than at LensCrafters’ own web site. When I pointed this out, the general manager told me that AVP is the same technology as “Accolade,” so I tried to research that. I found that there are no web pages ther mention both AVP and Accolade — clearly, they are not the same technology.
I asked, again and again, to be shown anything that would actually describe or show the difference between AVP and non-AVP progressive lenses. The staff was unanimous: there was nothing. I even called another LensCrafters store, and got the exact same explanation and agreement that there was nothing that either explained or demonstrated the difference.
So what’s the deal? Is AVP just another made-up buzzword like they use to sell toothpaste and gasoline at inflated prices? It certainly seems to be. I walked out of LensCrafters twice today, because I won’t do business with bait-and-switch scam artists. I expect to pay more money tomorrow at another optician to get the glasses that LensCrafters persuaded me that I should not buy from them.
Added 10-7-2008: Some form of “better progressive lenses” are apparently offered by a number of companies under different trademarks. None of these web sites actually explain the technology or provide a credible demonstration. This all appears to be “marketing hype” with no actual benefit for your money.
- Advanced View Progressive (AVP) – LensCrafters
- Verilux Physio – WAVE (Wavefront Advanced Vision Enhancement)
- Accolade & Accolade Freedom With FrameOptimization Technology
- Harmonix (Accolade’s “Technology”)
- EasyView (PearleVision)
— Mark J. Welch
I understand this man’s pain completely. I have been a dispensing optician for the past 8 years. I started out at LensCrafters, and went to private practice shortly after that. There is always a grey area with LensCrafters progressive multifocal lenses. First off, not all progressive lenses are the same. When I worked at LensCrafters, I would encourage my patients to purchase a special order Varilux Panamic lens. (this is because the LensCrafters branded lenses were terrible) LensCrafters does NOT use the latest technology and generally are about 5-10 years behind from the rest of the optical industry. This is where they make huge profits. They care about one thing MONEY, not you. Your vision is the last of their priorities.
The latest technology definitely benefits the older styles. Essilor Varilux Physio/Physio 360 and Hoya Vision iD & iD Lifestyle all use a “freeform” digitally generated surface technology. What this means to you is that there is going to be less peripheral distortion in the lens. This means the swimming effect will be less when looking to the ground and walking.
Crisper, Cleaner vision is the end result ( in distance, intermediate and near).
Lens Material plays a HUGE part in visual clarity. Most chain stores sell YOU Polycarbonate lenses. Polycarbonate lenses definitely have their benefits, they are impact resistant, and give you UV protection. Polycarbonate has been around for 15+ years. The problem is that polycarbonate causes chromical abberation (distortion). Polycarbonate is CHEAP garbage. Nowdays there is a better alternative it is called TRIVEX or TRILOGY. Hoya Vision calls their lens material PHOENIX.
It is visually pure, and costs the same as Polycarbonate. (NO DISTORTION).
High Index is also a great option.
Anti-Reflective Coatings have come a long way in recent years.
Your best bet is to go with a coating that has a warranty.
They all resist scratches, fingerprints and boast better clean-ability. Great coatings are HOYA Super Hi-Vision EX3, Essilor Crizal Sapphire and Alize. (all have a 2 year warranty)
LensCrafters “Scotchguard” coating is a good option, but they don’t stand by the product.
I hope this may help many of you out there! Do yourself a favor, go to a private office. See a qualified optician. They will take the mystery out of the process, and find you the best option that suits your needs.
This was the best analysis I have seen. Thanks for the information. I was very confused, and now I am pretty clear on what I need.
AVP is a type of lense with a wider “side field” view.
ie if you have non avp lenses you you want to look at something that isn’t. “Dead on s traight” then you need to swivel your head or the view will be blurry. With avp you can just look. Its more natural.
Its not a “scam”many companies make similar wider view lenses
I used to work for an optical shop and the reason they push for certain products is solely based on commission. I think I made an extra 5 dollars when I sold anything with anti-reflective coating, another 2 dollars for extra scratch resistant coating, and so on. Same thing when I worked at a bank. We got commission for signing people up for online banking, debit cards, certain accounts, etc. Crizal lenses have been my favorite to wear. I had a pair of transitions with crizal, which were nice, but now I just use regular Crizal. I noticed a lot of people having issues with progressive lenses and most opted back to regular bi-focals. Good luck.
“Custom digitally generated surface” is just another excuse to charge overblown prices. Off-the-shelf Panamic lens one of the best ever, with true wide vision, all newer lenses are just a gimmick and don’t work as well. Shame on you Varilux for discontinuing and shame on you “J” for pushing the “new” technology!
I’ve been in the business for 23 years and to Allison I’d say you may be off the mark a bit. Panamic,GT2 and a whole host of other lenses have been some of the best lenses ever designed. However the problem is that they lack the benefits of a customized progressive in that they simply can’t correct for things like position of wear, variable corridor, variable insets and the like. The older generations of progressive lenses I describe like this. They were designed for everybody and Anybody but nobody in particular. Now there is an exception to that rule. Position of wear measurements include measurements such as the wrap angle of the frame, the vertex distance which essentially accounts for how far away from the eye the lens sits and the tilt angle of the front frame (referred to as Pantoscopic tilt). In the case of the standard design progressive they will use “Standard position of wear measurements” to generate your lenses. Typically those measurements are around 5 degrees of frame wrap angle, 14.5mm vertex distance and then around 9 degrees of tilt. If you happen to be lucky enough to fall into those parameters with the glasses that you’ve chosen you’re basically customized.
That’s an overly simplistic explaination though because it doesn’t account for one of the most important features of the customized progressives and thats the fact that on a Free-form custom, digital progressives they take the progressive corridor off of the front surface of the lens (in other words, the lens manufacturer determines the progressive corridor in the lens design and casting)and a very expensive, highly sophisticated, way-above-my-paygrade computer and lab equipment determines the best possible vision given all of the parameters discussed above and generates the progressive corridor onto the back surface of the lens. That translates to a larger and more customized reading and intermediate zone.
So again, I would agree with you in that there are older generations of progressives out there that did work just fine but as I’ve layed out here there are definitely more advanced options available.
Mark, in direct response to your question, “is AVP just another made-up buzzword like they use to sell toothpaste and gasoline at inflated prices?” Yes, but that’s nothing new. Lenscrafter’s has made a living off of separating themselves from the herd in this fashion. When I was there in the early nineties they had a device out called the “Accufit.” It was nothing more than a plastic clamp with a non-standardized set of measurements on the side of it that gave you a “size” that coincided with their exclusive sizing system. The idea being that if you were measured for a size 13 frame at lenscrafters using this “device” and then went elsewhere to look for frames and that dispensary used the traditional sizing method which is basically done by trying on frames rather than using the handy lenscrafters tool,that it would reflect poorly on them and when opticians at these optical shops didn’t have an answer for it Lenscrafters would look all the more sophisticated and customers would come flocking back (Accufit failed by the way).
Another instance of this is the case of the “featherweight” lenses they sell. “Featherweights” are nothing more than a common polycarbonate lensand while it’s true you can only get “Featherweights” through Lenscrafters you can readily purchase a Polycarbonate lens from any respectable optical shop.
In regards to the “Advanced View Progressive” think of it like this; They are no more advanced in the world of optics than an analog television set is to a black-and-white set. In other words is more advanced than the earliest generations of progressive but nowhere near as sophisticated as the best lenses on the market (an 1080p HD television set).
To “J” there is one small issue I’d have with your comments about polycarbonate lenses. I wouldn’t say that polycarb is “garbage.” True it has a high price margin but that being said it’s also an inexpensive option where the Rx merits it. I would further make one more slight correction because you mentioned “chromical abberration” with poly and then proceeded to recommend Hi index in the next sentence. In fact Hi index lenses have just as much incidence of CA as that of polycarb. The higher the index the lower the ABBE value and along with that comes an increased chance that a patient might experience some form of CA (which is basically the propensity for a lens material to break a ray of light down in to it’s component colors and OCCASSIONALLY you may experience a halo or shadowing effect or one of a few other symptoms). In my opinion if you already have a lens material already picked out for your customer before you’ve taken into account Rx, lifestyle needs, past experiences etc, you’re doing it wrong.
Matt F:
In regards to your comment:
“In regards to the “Advanced View Progressive” think of it like this; They are no more advanced in the world of optics than an analog television set is to a black-and-white set. In other words is more advanced than the earliest generations of progressive but nowhere near as sophisticated as the best lenses on the market (an 1080p HD television set).”
Then what are the best lenses on the market?
PS I have AVP bifocals from LC, but i found that they are not what they told me they would be. My field of clearness is narrow. I want to say that the technician probably forgot to program the machine for the AVP setting when the lenses were molded.
Wow, sounds like the staff at Lens crafters were trying to hook you up with a decent pair of glasses that would not be too heavy, and a no line bi-focal… hell my lenses alone were $1200… and after about an hour of trying to find frames that could handle my prescription and what my insurance would cover, the great people at the Potomac Mills Lens crafters were awesome!!
Sean, above is completely wrong about AVP lenses. The Lenscrafter tech told me that with the Lenscrafter AVP lenses I just got I WILL have poor peripheral vision. The Lenscrafter tech says if I want to be able to use my peripheral vision, I will need to get ‘varilux lenses’ and it will cost me a steep upcharge.’ The Lenscrafter AVP progressive bifocals are terrible. I can’t even use the side view mirrors in my car without moving my head completely over and craning around. I can see out of a dime-sized sweet spot and two-thirds of my field of vision is blurred. I get migraines and this constantly blurry peripheral vision is going to kill me. Am going back to return them for a full refund. Wish me luck.
TECH is the key word, you are buying glasses from “techs” who are all part time with no experience besides a video. Stick with your local Optometrist who cares enough about your eyes to hire a trained/experienced Optician, not a retail chain concerned about “their” numbers…..
I have progressive lens with narrow reading area which make it hard to work as an analyst. So what is the best that give me the widest reading area and less distortion over all? Lens Crafters say they have Varilux 1.74 1.67 1.60. I need the best for my work and to get rid of the eye strain. And are Walmart’s Nikon – Presio Power lens good??
So hate to tell you
Abut AVP lenses made in house HAVE ALWAYS been Essilor Accolade !!!!!! Period ..,
I don’t know which search engine you are using but check ur spelling . Now if they ordered them from their outside lab they used free form or digital Technology – they used Shamir lenses after building that partnership . those are the only 2 AVP ( a cats gory that means Advance View Progressive )
as in recent years they invested into 2 products they call HD – both high index lenses – however the 1.60 was just upgraded to a fully personalized lens that takes into account vertex fist / panto – and even frame shape ! so therefore they must have the frame on file ! they are great ! the optics the lens comps – everything
as for the 1.67 HD – they are a optimized rx / high index except it doesn’t utilize the frame shape !
both a much better $$ then Varilux enhanced and certainly better then physio !!
my feeling is u can never go wrong with comfort or comfort short !
if u like that design ! however personally I like my lens under 750 / and the HD products ( ie Indo a Maxima ) are great !
I just love seeing folks that want to pay 3-400 of a progressive complete or and think they r getting the best . Adam that wholesale price on the low end of the Varilux pole … and Panamic.. OMG
don’t listen there !! they took them off cuz they sucked !! I tried them !
so go look at the designs and how they change base off of all the above – and remember / u get what u pay for ! I just love those cap fools that want the designer frames – top of the line lens free … lmao !
trivex – doesn’t do anything for me – basically it’s cast just like cr39 . go with 1.60 or above u will be fine !!
We went to the optometrist and had my eyes checked then went to Lens Crafters. The glasses gave me headaches so I went back to the optometrist and she said it was the glasses not the perscription. I went back to Lens Crafters 4 times with them wanting to adjust something. Finally on the 4th time I demanded another pair so I paid extra for a featherlight lens and had to wait a week. When I got the call they were in I went down and had to wait 1 1/2 hr for my turn just to pick the glasses up. They still feel heavy and I still get headaches and I can only see out of them if my head is down looking thru the very bottom. The rest of my vision is blurred. What can I do now. They only replace once.
To all the posters that have referred to Chromical Aberration, there is no such word as chromical…it’s chromatic
LENSCRAFTERS – Avoid this chain!
Think twice before dealing with LensCrafters
I escelated the matter via my BBB complaint and then had input from David Bauer at HQ and it was agreed that LensCrafters would make up just one lens. (dbauer@luxotticaretail.com Rx Operations Manager (678) 472-8481)
On Sat. 10/26 I returned to the Kennesaw location and had extensive discussions with the Manager and an Associate regarding a price issue. I had been told on 10/17 that the cost for 2 lenses would be $110. On the 26th I was told that they would, as per their HQ make up one lens and the cost would be $110! My opinion was that the cost should be in the area of $55-60 or half what they had wanted for making up 2. They would not agree to this and decided to take my contact info and contact HQ for further instructions. It is now a ‘don’t call us – we’ll call you situation’ as they will supposedly contact HQ for guidance. I am still waiting to hear from them!
Their treatment of a returning customer who had last year purchased 3 pair of lenses and glasses from them and had been impressed enough to tell the manager of that time that the associate helping him had done a great job, tells me that this firm has absolutely no concern about customers and no desire to encourage customer loyalty to their brand. They seem to exist entirely for what goes into their cash register that business day and never mind any long term concepts of taking care of ‘old’ customers or encouraging future visits, they are just interested in how much $ they can wring out of customers that day.
I have since determined that there is great dis-satisfaction with consumers regarding this firm, with 447 complaints to the BBB over 3 years and 96 complaints on the site http://www.ripoffreport.com/ I have established 8 blog sites in anticipation of additional nonsense from LensCrafters and they will ‘go active’ if/when LensCrafters HQ decides that it is just fine for them to attempt to charge $110 for the one lens. Here is a link of one of those sites FYI: http://lenscrafterscorporate.blogspot.com/
Misc. I see from my sitemeters that LensCrafters HQ in Mason, Ohio IP Address: Luxottica (66.161.213.180) has been looking at my site 5 times in the last 2 days. I hope they learn something from my comments. As things stand now they have a very poor reputation and have some really stupid corporate policies.
Here are my existing blog sites FYI, this weekend I will be adding another 20+:
http://screwlenscrafters.blogspot.com/
http://kennesawlenscrafters.blogspot.com/
http://lenscrafterscorporate.blogspot.com/
http://avoidkennesawlenscrafters.blogspot.com/
http://avoidlenscrafters.blogspot.com/
http://lenscraftersripoff.blogspot.com/
http://kennesawlenscrafterssucks.blogspot.com/
My understanding is that Hoya is a separate business entity from LensCrafters. LensCrafters is one of several optical centers that carry Hoya lenses.
This site popped up as I was researching the various terms used in buying eyeglasses. Still researching and trying to make a decision. But in the world of scams I feel like lenscrafters is leading the race. I due to other medical issues require a strong prescription for glasses. And I am fortunate to have some Vision Insurance. So I get a quote for glasses from an out of network store of $700.00. From Lenscrafters a listed provider of my insurance, USING MY INSURANCE BENEFITS the quote of $695.00. Exact same lens and frame. Give me a break, a $5 savings using my insurance vs going to an out of network provider. Lenscrafters are a joke.
My opthamologist, who is one of the captive Lenscrafters “associates”, hates them, and is waiting for his first opportunity to disassociate and relocate his practice. He told me that in 2013 LC did a customer survey with the result that 40% of customers said they would never return under any circumstances. He said they repeated that survey in 2014, and the “never return” number had _increased_ to over 50%. He attributed this mostly to the fact that quality control standards in the post-production verfication of lenses had been drastically lowered. He also told me that Lenscrafters, Perle, Sears Optical and a number of the other big name eyeglasses retailer chains are all owned by Luxotica. The Luxotica management logic must be that if one of their retailers pi$$e$ off the customer to the point that the customer goes elsewhere, that destination will most likely be another Luxotica retailer. “Win-win”… That, along with the comments I read here are enough to convince me to try an online provider. I already did a trial for sport glasses that LC didn’t carry, with satisfactory results. Now I’m going to purchase my regular eyeglasses that way. If I’m going to be sold cr@p by LC for a premium price, I figure the worst I can do is to buy cr@p at a much lower price from the online provider.
VinnyG
@ Linda Carlin,
Yes, Linda, I have BlueView vision insurance, and found the same issue. If you read the fine print of your insurance, you may find that the insurance coverage eliminates any other “discount” or “coupon” offers (this kind of discount offer is nearly always in force at LC). I also noted that ALL of the “in network” providers in my BlueView plan are Luxottica companies. Sounds like some kind of underhanded dealing to me, where the eyeglasses customer/insuree is deceived to the benefit of other parties…
So after reading all the information above, if I’m buying progressives, what are the best lenses to buy? I’m locked into to LC now because I just bought a new pair there that i’m not real happy with.
Thanks.
In my opinion, the best way to find the right lens is to sit in a room where you have a cable box and television together… If you notice the TV is clear but the numbers/time on the cable box are blurred and you need to move your eyes or22GP head to read them than you should inquire about other lens options. Some of the upgraded lenses will allow your eyes to move in the lens without having you move your head, others will require your eyes to stay still but you’ll need to move/tilt your head to have a clearer view. Different people move their eyes and/or head to accommodate vision naturally so no two people will have the same results…. Using the lenses you have, let your optician know what works with this simple test and they should know what lenses will work for you. Give it a try……
I have -3.50 in each eye and I used to wear polycarbonate and higher index lenses. I had no problem with them.
But then I tried the very cheap CR-39 (plastic lenses) in one pair of cheap frames out of curiosity. These are known to have the best optical quality possible.. just slightly less than glass. I couldn’t believe the difference. It was like going from standard definition on a poor TV screen to 1080 HDTV on the best Samsung. Not only are they much sharper, but there is less general visual distortion, i think caused by uneven power through the lens. I had read that CR-39 has a higher “abbe value”, having to do with light, and that the lower ABBE value of polycarbonate mostly affected higher powers and only with color fringing and that there is not much difference in reality. I found this for me to be untrue. I found a tremendous difference just looking straight ahead with them and at any angle. They made even my best polycarbonate lens look terrible.
After this experience, I look at the whole business in a pretty negative light.
For people with a mild to moderate prescription, CR-30 has way better optical quality than poly, hi-index and more expensive options touted for better optical quality. And it costs half of what poly costs. It lets more light in so I find I need no AR coating on it at all (that would only get scratched and smudged). It is also quite shatter resistant in its own right … not as much as polycarbonate, but pretty good for normal living. It is a little thicker and heavier than polycarbonate, but only a little. It also can’t be used with rimless and has less UV protection, but these issues to me are less important.
The stunning visual improvement and all of that at a LESSER price (I would pay 3x times the price of poly for it) just shows me what some value. It ain’t my sight that’s for sure.
I went into LC and immediately could tell they were a scam. They quoted me $420 for single lenses with transition for the sun. That was without upgrades. I said I had my own frames and salesperson warned right away that if the frames were damaged they were not liable. True, but also a way to try to get you to buy the frames in their store. I knew hundreds more would be added for upgrades they would insist on. They obviously work on commission and it shows. There were red flags all over the place and I left saying I would think about it. I never returned and never will. Went to an optometrist and saved a bundle. Went to LC first because I thought it would be cheaper. They remind me of used car salespeople.
Thought to offer my “2 cents” as a happy customer of LC. LC is pricey however I have gone to the same location for my last 4 pair of glasses including sunglasses on each of those visits. It always costs more money than going online but I do like the comfort of working face to face with people. I’ve never had a bad experience and on one occasion had to use the protection plan I paid for and was glad I did when my Oakley eyeglasses had broken at the hinge point.
I always ask for the progressive, no line bifocals with anti glare coating. Again, no issues or returns and happy with my experience.
It’s been 8 years, but I truly hope you’ve had the broom handle removed from your ass. It certainly doesn’t seem to take much to get you “frustrated and angry”.
I also hope you found a pair of eyeglasses. If not, that would truly be unfortunate.
Is this glass or plastic. I think I it is plastic, ibwas not asked which zi wanted? PG AVP FEA Classic Rnhed Scrych (Poly)
I tried to go to LensCrafters during an out of town emergency; they would not honor my Medicare or AAARP UHC discount program called EyeMed, said they could not find me in the system, even though I was a previous customer prior to retiring. I was willing to pay out of pocket for my immediate needs but they we’re neither friendly or helpful. My emergency destroyed my Silhouette frameless drilled set with Varilux progressives. I don’t think I will opt for the delicate Silhouettes again, but for the Varilux lenses alone, LensCrafters wants around $1400 and Walmart quotes around $500. Probably will choose Nikon lenses at Walmart and get back to my life.
Thank you so much for this information.
I have had a terrible experience with the lenses provided by Lenscrafters,regardless of the money I spent.
Hi everyone, I’m so confused. I went to lens crafters and they told me my glasses were half off, but they charged me 215 for the lenses. Online it says they are only supposed to charge 100 for clear regular lenses, which means I was overcharged. Then, I went to inquire about progressives and they charged me 400 which does not make sense. It’s like they are over pricing the lens to make up for the half off. Very confusing and at the moment I don’t have the extra money, so it’s just making me wonder if it is the bait and switch. The people in the store are wonderful but I don’t want to be overcharged either.